Episode 3: Alfonso Fiore- A Product Owner’s Journey
About Alfonso:
My next guest on The One Percent Project is Alfonso Fiore. Alfonso has an MSc in Computer Science and an MBA from London Business School. After a long career in telecommunications across Europe, he moved to Asia and started a new career in product management quickly rising through major Southeast Asian multinationals and now heads all packaged products at AirAsia.
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In this conversation, he talks about:
His journey of becoming a product head at AirAsia.
Evolution of Super Apps in Asia
Elaborates on the role that ‘brand’ and ‘trust’ play in product development.
Speaks about his entrepreneurial journey and how that experience has helped him become a better product manager.
Discusses his most favourite product- Google Maps.
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Transcript:
*The transcripts are not 100% accurate.
Pritish: Welcome Alfonso to the One Percent Project.
Alfonso: Thank you, Pritish. Thank you for having me. Not quite sure if I belong to the One Percent, but I'm glad that you think so.
Pritish: How did you become a product owner?
Alfonso: So I got into product management, officially, after my MBA. Initially, I had a previous career in telecommunication, and I did that for quite a few years. I've always been passionate about the product I was working on. In fact, every time, my dream has been to work in Nokia devices, even though I was working in Nokia networks, the part that takes care of the network that connects the various, phones. I always had a dream to play with the device builds a device. Then finally, after my MBA in London, I start to discover the world of startups when I was there in London. I got an opportunity to work with a company and, help them build their website, with the development team. That's how I got into product management. Then I started doing it really as a full-time job.
Pritish: Super apps are a rage in Asia. How does one go about building a Super app given such a heterogeneous market from a product manager's view?
Alfonso: It is true, also to my knowledge and to my experience that, Super apps are very much a thing in Southeast Asia compared to other regions of the world. I would say not just Southeast Asia. Obviously, everybody looks at WeChat. WeChat is the big daddy of Super apps. I didn't live in China, but based on the understanding that I have, and based on my experience when I travelled there. Really, you can do everything with WeChat. I think that if I then think about the experiences the example of Super apps in Southeast Asia, of course, Grab, comes to mind, Go-Jek comes to mind, and a lot of people that would like, to go down that path. But I don't think it's something, at least from my understanding you set out to be. You don't start thinking about being a Super app. I think what happens is that, you know, think about what Grab did or what WeChat. They started with a single vertical use case. In the case of WeChat, it was chat. In the case of Grab, it was transportation ride-hailing, and then when they realize that there is such a captive market, of course, companies are there for the opportunity to make a profit and make the life, easier for their users. So when there is an opportunity to, not only vertical integrate, but then also expand horizontally in other markets and in other, vertical, then that's where the Super app is born. It's exactly the same thing with AirAsia right now. It is, of course, first and foremost an airline. The very vast majority, of our business, obviously not right now come from flights. But at the same time, we realize that there is an opportunity to expand and to capture, more market and to offer more opportunity to our users because the people that come to Airasia.com, of course, if they want to fly, they will, they will clearly have other needs. They will have a need to rent a hotel most of the time. If they are on holidays, they might do some activities when they get there. And so it makes a lot of sense to offer them a place where they can actually both find their flight, but also, find activities, find hotels. Basically, the idea is that not only do they do you simplify their life but also you offer them a deal, a discount, something that would make them really stick. Especially when I think about AirAsia, you know, now everybody can fly. So, you know, the model of AirAsia is really about enabling everyone in this region and beyond to travel when maybe before they didn't have the means. So of course, the business aspect is also very important for the Super app strategy because the idea is that if you actually offer them something special from also from a price perspective, then it's of course, more likely to get their interest.
Pritish: That brings me to an interesting question. Product development these days has big data, UX, business; it's a multidisciplinary team, or, I would say a job function How important or is branding and trust a part of product development?
Alfonso: Definitely, the brand is very, very important. But I think if I think about the brand, the idea is that I would divide it in an existing company, established company and startups. I think that's very different if you think about, large companies such as Grab, such as Uber, initially when they started There was no brand, so obviously it's something, it's built with the customer, with success by really taking care of your customer and listening to them and improving their app. So in a sense, product management is based on trust because we want to build that trust with the customer. Product management is about listening to your customers. We want to understand their needs. So, of course, those every large company has a specialist team, in some of my past company, that was trust and safety. So that our people, especially that take care of this aspect and they focus on this. I think another aspect is, how much of a correlation with the offline world there is. So, for example, if, there is a strong interaction between your product and the customer in the physical world. Then, of course, trust and safety become even more important. So if you think about in the case of ride-hailing, you want to be sure that the people are vetted correctly that they, you know, that people feel safe. When they ride with someone else. So I think that there are all these different dimensions, the dimension of a well-known brand versus a startup and then the dimension of online versus offline. But in general, trust is being, is more and more focus. We can also talk about GDPR. Especially, you know, those are all global brands. Even if they're based in Southeast Asia, if they cater to international customers. They also have to think about that. So, trust and safety is a big part of product management. It has a lot of implication, and it's very, very important for product management, product managers to care about those aspects.
Pritish: You are the head of products at AirAsia, and you have been an entrepreneur as well. Language Hunt was a business that you built. How was that experience different from being a part of a huge company such as AirAsia?
Alfonso: Definitely, it's a major difference, I think, it's easy. You know, I always make this kind of example in my mind for people that buy a lottery ticket because they think they can become rich. Would they still buy it? If they would see an advertisement where every single person that buys a ticket says, Oh, I didn't win, and then. In the delusion of a million people that say, I didn't win; I didn't win; I didn't win. One person says, Oh, I want 1 million, and that's would be the one second across, I don't know, millions of seconds, where people just say, I didn't win. I didn't win. So in a sense, entrepreneurship I see it is a bit like that right. I'm very passionate about it. I think it's amazing to build something, but it's also incredibly difficult. That's why I have the utmost respect for people that managed to do it for people that actually did build something, themselves. So, for about a year, a year and a half, when I was in London, I actually, because London is such a thriving community of entrepreneurs. So I tried to do something on my own, and Language Hunt was probably, one of the best ideas that I tried to put myself into with Adrian is really that the core and the soul of Language Hunt. But then, we got in touch. We started to, to like working together. We even met in Istanbul of all places. I was living in London He as living in the U.S, and we in New York and we met in Istanbul is a very interesting story, but there, the idea was actually to try to kind of match people based on their skill. Initially, we thought that language could have been the best way because we both know both Adrian and I speak more than one language. We know that the best way to learn the language is basically to meet someone in person. So that's the idea, it's almost like if you wish you want to call it that, it's more almost like a Tinder, for language, enthusiasts for people that are trying to learn a new language. It was very interesting to see that. You know, there were people interested. I remember meeting a lot of people that were captured about the idea that, that would like to explore it. The reality is that you know one of the sayings that I liked the most is that, building an overnight success takes many, many years. So that's the thing when you think about those startups, you think about overnight success, but that's not true. Those people are relentless entrepreneurs. This is what makes them so fascinating, at least to me, that they are really against the odds. They work hard with almost no, return, for many, many years and yes, of course, everybody knows, the Bill Gates of the world or any other entrepreneur Elon Musk that comes to mind. But the reality is that out of those success cases that are hundreds of thousands of people like me that tried, and maybe didn't, have the grit, the right idea, or just simply didn't have the patience, tenacity, or the ability to make it happen. So yeah, Language Hunt was a fantastic experience. I think he taught me a lot about product management, and I think. I'm a better product manager because of that, because in a sense, you know, the founder of a startup is the typical product manager. So in that sense, I think all, the entrepreneurial experience that I had makes me a better product manager. But that didn't happen. It didn't become a big thing, unfortunately.
Pritish: I think we should touch upon the present situation, the COVID19 We have been affected by it in an adverse manner, and hopefully we'll get through it. But coming back and looking at product development, we all are learning something new about consumer trends and how we consume content so would you say that the new age or post COVID19 world product managers would need to see things with new lenses on?
Alfonso: Obviously, the, especially today, the viruses impacting all of us. I'm speaking from my lockdown I mean, Singapore right now, and, I am allowed certain things. I'm not allowed other things. Everybody has to wear a mask when we leave the house, and we see it clearly. That, this has an impact. Also on the way we consume media, we use our apps, there are countercyclical applications such as a Zoom or Netflix that have clearly boomed in this period were a lot of people have to spend time indoors. There are other things like, you know, thing example is definitely at AirAsia that are affected by, because of course, right now most of the fleet is grounded. Yes, I'm not so sure though about. If this is going to change everything when life will go back to normal. I think humans have this incredible ability to adapt, and that's what makes us this unique species that really changes the environment entirely. I mean. Beaver builds dams in the river. But, we build cities, and we go to space. I think you know that's what makes us so unique. So I feel like right now we definitely have, are changing completely. But I don't doubt that the moment things go back to normal, people will want to start leaving their old life as soon as possible. Now, I don't know if this is going to be next month or next year, but I'm pretty sure that that life will go back to normal. What I think is going to change hopefully is like the from a government perspective, the preparation. If anything like that would happen again, maybe we would definitely be in a better faster and different way. But in terms of product, I would imagine that yes now in this period, a lot of product managers are thinking about it and trying to adapt and so AirAsia. But I don't know if there is something that will change product management forever.
Pritish: You brought up Zoom has a special place in the COVID19 situation. It has gone to 200 million users. During this outbreak, what did they get right as a product?
Alfonso: I think it goes back to that thing I mentioned before, the ability to adapt Zoom was just the perfect product at the perfect time. There are other products that caught certain waves. For example, I read a very interesting article a few years back about, the rise of Airbnb the argument that they were making is that one of the great things that happened for Airbnb was that they kind of launch around the 2008, nine crisis, so there were people that actually needed extra income and Airbnb offered them an opportunity to make extra money maybe when they were laid off when they lost their job. In the same way, I think this is what makes Zoom such a big success right now because it's the perfect app for the need that we have right now. We need to be indoor, but we still want to communicate. I talked to my family back in Italy every other day, and I talked to my friends around the world. Just this morning I was talking to my friend in New York. So, of course. I think the ability to see each other in person in a very simple way, really makes a difference. Zoom just works, so I think, what is maybe more interesting to me, is how did Zoom have to adapt, given the pressure because initially, he was just an application that was used by some business people. It was working great. It was seamless, but it wasn't under a lot of pressure. But now you see that there are all these security alerts. They've been under a lot of scrutinies for that integration with Facebook. They had to shut that down. There are issues with Zoom bombing so another lesson for me as a product manager, from Zoom experience, is this concept of and there is a book actually, about this and called, what gets you here won't get you there. So. Initially, I think it's super important. It was great for Zoom to be so simple and to be so basic. But, now they have to be to become way more complicated. They have to have a password. They are making their ID longer. So it's harder to guess. I think this ties back into your Super app question at the beginning because now I, in my mind, I'm thinking of that the same is true for Grab, initially Grab was just an app to go from A to B. So simple or to call a taxi. But look about, look at Grab now. It allows all sorts of ways to move from A to B there is hitch there is taxi, there is private, there is a luxury there is six seaters that are lots of option. There is a finance option; there is food delivery. So I think it's very interesting how, this journey kind of replicates over and over again. If you think about Airbnb now, they are doubling into activities, and they want to become a player in the activity market. It's really important to start simple with the use case that really it's a really a need for customers. Then build on top of that, and this one of the big lessons of entrepreneurship is if I can use the words of Paul Graham is do things that don't scale, do something simple, do something that, you know if you have to do it a lot of things manually. But that's the journey at the beginning of entrepreneurship is a basic use case in the most simple way. If really this hits a customer need, then there's going to be pick up in the market, and then over time, your customer will evolve. Maybe your audience will evolve, and then eventually you will get to this state where Zoom is now, which is a bit more mature, and where they change dramatically compared to the one-click simple thing that they used to be.
Pritish: Which is your most favourite product, and why?
Alfonso: So this is the best, you know, interview question, this is what I ask, people when they interview. So if you, if you are going for an interview, please prepare this question. So I would say I am really fascinated by Google maps, and I love Google maps a lot. I use it all the time. The reason why I like it so much is because it keeps expanding. It covers so many different use cases, and it allows me to see pictures of the place I go. It allows me to travel with my mind. Yesterday I sent to my sister, point on Google maps of a place that I'd love to visit. Because we are both stranded, we're dreaming of places where we could go. And so I sent her a pin on Google. She just clicked, and she could see the images. I could find a restaurant when I want to go around, and I can see customers reviews about those places. I know I can find out how. What is the public transportation? How to get from A to B. In certain countries, they even integrate with Uber, but I think if you still, I don't know if it's still the case, but in the U.S you can actually call Uber from within a Google maps. So in a sense, I think maybe it's the less well known super app there is because they offer so many use cases, for so many users. I'm definitely a passionate user of Google maps.
Pritish: Actually, that is a very intriguing answer. Thank you very much.
Alfonso: Thank you for having me.